Q: Pastor, I have some doubts. In his recent seminar Father Grün was speaking on “Interpreting dreams and life with a devotional attitude” and he quoted widely from Carl Jung’s writing on interpretations of dreams. Some of the points quoted were: active imagination, dialogue with the person in the dream,getting to know one’s true self through dreams. I cannot find biblical basis for his points. To me these are beyond biblical revelation.
On free association method,dream interpretation,fantasy and dialogue with these imagined persons…… Isn’t it likely that we inadvertently get in touch with “spirits”? Can we trust what Father Grün teaches? I have some books on biblical counselling. One of the books “The End of Christian Psychology” mentions that the mentees need to admit their sinfulness and repent before God, rather than to blame his family or others for bringing about psychological injury.
On top of that another book “Introduction to Biblical Counseling” also mentions that Freud was an atheist and those who followed him were all anti Christianity and Jung was a free thinker, both of them were not Christians……
A: Your question shows that you paid a lot of attention during Father Grün’s lecture. You have given it much thought and evaluation. You value the Scripture and note that the basic problem of man is sin which is one of the most concerned truths to the evangelical. Your opinions and concerns show that you are a faithful protestant. You exalt the revelation of God, emphasize conversion and pursue sanctification. I really appreciate you!
In order to respond to your question appropriately, I think I need to mention the two tracks in the History of Development of Christian Theology. Since early day churches the theological tracts of these two tracks were obviously different.
faith can integrate with the surrounding culture, the best of contemporary knowledge, philosophy and thoughts. One representative of this track is Titus Flavius Clemens, (150-215 A.D.) who lived in the city of Alexandria, Egypt. He believed that Christian doctrine is the true philosophy, there is no contradiction with Greek philosophy, and can even be expressed in philosophy, the two complement each other. For example, Clement found many “good stuffs” in Platonism i.e. the philosophy that focuses on kindness, afterlife, that everything has a spiritual dimension and the like. He felt that these “good stuffs” can be tools for Christians to spread their beliefs, to allow the Gentiles to understand Christian thought and to accept Christ.
Another track believes that there is clear distinction between Christian faith and the heathen secular ideology. A representative for this track is Tertullian (150-220 A.D.) a lawyer from Carthage of the north coast of Africa (present-day Tunisia). Once he sternly asked: “What is the relationship between Athens and Jerusalem?” In this question, “Athens” represents Greek philosophy while “Jerusalem” represents the Bible and apostolic doctrinal set up. In today’s circumstance, it is like asking: “What is the relationship between the Bible and secular psychology? Can God’s holy divine revelation and the sinful thought of human be jumbled together?” For Christians that follow this track, the revelation of God to the Israelites during the Old Testament time, the apostles’ writings and teachings of the New Testament period and the Church’s traditions inherited from the apostolic teachings, these three are unique as these were inspired by God. Therefore, the church should establish a belief system that is entirely of Christianity, not to be edified by “secular” rational.
The First Track
By now you should have noted that Father Grün is a theologian of the first track. Moreover, the Roman Catholic’s Second Vatican Ecumenical Council (1962-1965) resolved that for the ministerial role of the Catholic Church to be more effective in this modern age, the relationship between the church and the contemporary field of philosophy, science, the Protestants, and other religions, need to be addressed and to have open dialogue with them. Therefore, that Father Grün had quoted widely from Carl Jung for the interpretation of dreams is not surprising because Carl Jung was a famous Swiss psychologist and psychoanalyst. Carl Jung believed that human life is like a plant that continues its life through its root and real life is like the buried roots which is subliminal and is buried deep inside our heart. Our dreams and all kinds of hallucinations help us to recognize and reveal our true self.
Father Grün in his book “活像耶稣” (original title: “Bilder von Jesus”), shares his thoughts after dialogue with other religious. He says that Buddhism opens his eyes and he realizes that Jesus asks us to see things from the other aspect too, to see the true face behind the false app e a r a n c e and to see God’s world from the image that this world is presenting; Hinduism teaches him to carefully observe conflict between unity and diversity that is shown in Jesus; Confucianism inspires him to treat Jesus as a teacher and spiritual master.
By now you may be wondering whether Father Grün believes that “all roads lead to Rome,” all religions bring salvation, and thus can lead us to God? Listen to what he said: “I am not treating Jesus as one of the founders of many religions; to me He is forever the Son of God. Through Jesus God reveals Himself in the one and only way. To me, Jesus is …….. God’s total proclamation of Himself. “ (p. 244-245)
The Second Track
I believe by now you realize that the book “Introduction to Biblical Counseling” that you mention above belongs to the second track. Basically the second track is the spiritual heritage of the Reformation of the sixteenth century that took place in Europe. For example, the famous second generation reformist John Calvin (1509-1564) once said: “Other than God’s Words that are recorded in the books of Law, the Prophetic books and the writings by the Apostles, the church should not accept other writings as God’s message. Other than God’s instructions and laws, the church should not accept other method of teaching.”
Therefore to the Protestants, the Bible is the criterion for the doctrine and also the guidelines for believers’ life. Protestants believe the Bible is self-sufficient; the church does not need to obtain knowledge about God from resources outside the Bible. So talking about dreams and interpreting dreams spiritually, a Protestant is most concerned about what the Bible says, what is Jesus’ teaching, how the characters in the Old and New Testaments faced and responded to dreams, which are the important verses that can be indicators for the interpretation of dreams and what is the light of the Holy Spirit and that’s enough!
To the Protestants, what the psychologists say are secondary, some Protestants even think that these are secular not worth referring to and so avoid giving a foothold for Satan. Jay E. Adams in his book “Competent to Counsel: Introduction to Nouthetic Counselling” states, “The Holy Spirit employs his Word as the principal means by which Christians achieve sanctification, counselling cannot be effective without Scriptures….. Hence counselling by Holy Spirit is counselling using the Holy Scriptures…… Counselling without the Scriptures is counselling without the working of Holy Spirit.” (page 55) What is my theological belief or attitude?
God’s “seed of the Word”
I believe that the 66 books in Old Testaments and the New Testaments are inspired by God (2 Tim 3:16-17), so I am faithful for the Bible, uplift it as the highest authority and guidelines for doctrine,spiritual formation and for life.
I believe that any information outside the Bible, such as non-Christian faiths and cultures, academic knowledge, philosophy, psychology and so on, contain God’s “seed of the Word” and have certain degree of divine glory. So, I will humbly and enthusiastically get to know them, be cautious and open, have dialogue with these but with criticism, and even use them as tools for Christian theology and bridge into the world, so that people could recognize our Creator’s mighty wisdom as well as the gospel of Jesus Christ.(Rom 1:19-20)
For example, Apostle John believed that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that was revealed in Old Testament looks and he came for the atonement of sins (1 John 2: 1-2). However, when he spread the gospel of God’s only begotten Son, he indigenously used the Greek term “Logos” (translated into Chinese as “道”). In Greek philosophy, “Logos” is what makes all things in this universe grow and function; all things came into being through “Logos”. Apostle John used this word to describe Jesus, but he also enriched the concept of this phrase ── “Logos” is not just the rationality and source of the universe, He is eternal with characters (awareness, affectionate, with senses and can act), is the bread of life, light of the world, the gate of the sheep, the good shepherd, the resurrection, the way, the truth and the life, the true vine (John 6:35; 8:12; 10: 9,11; 11:25; 14: 6; 15:1)!
Understand the expressed ideas
Now, let me respond to your question. You say: “active imagination, dialogue with the person in the dream, getting to know one’s true self through dreams. I cannot find biblical basis for these theories. To me these theories are beyond the biblical revelation. On free association method, dream interpretation, fantasy and dialogue with these imagined persons…… Would not it be easy for us to touch with “spirit”?”
I agree with your concerns, because if the audience does not fully understand what Father Grün is expressing and begins devoting to spiritual formation I am afraid that he may be “obsessed”, and as you say, get into contact with evil spirits. Therefore it is very important to understand the concept that Father Grün wants to express.
In simple term, Carl Jung’s theory that he is quoting relates to the communication between one’s conscious and subconscious mind, with the aim to: “all round survey: observe and understand conscious mind, while using subconscious mind that is revealed in dreams to reinforce conscious view.”
Father Grün in his book “Vom spirituellen Umgang mit Traumen” (Chinese translation: 梦与灵修) clarifies:
“I am interested in dreams not out of curiosity in psychology, but rather out of spiritual desire, I desire to be able to open all areas of my life to God. …… taking my conscious and subconscious power to be one with God, and to be transformed by His Spirit. “(pages 142, 144)
teaches us to have a wild flight of fancy nor involve in medium but “to let those who dream to experience God’s love in their dreams and to experience God’s protective hands leading him to real abundant life.” Father Grün also says cautiously that: “dream is not the highest target …… we must use the Words of the Bible and the actual life situation as a check against our dream or we will fall into and indulge in a dream world which is built by ourselves, with the danger of excluding others. “ (p. 164) You say: “Books on biblical counselling ask that the mentees need to admit their sinfulness and repent before God, rather than to blame his family or origin or that others brought about psychological injury.” I agree with the biblical counsellors’ idea, the most fundamental problem of man is totally depraved sinful human nature and sinfulness causes evil thoughts, intention, attitude and behaviour. Thus, the mentees need exhortation of biblical d i s c o u r s e , teaching and even warnings, trusting that Jesus is Saviour, experiencing rebirth and the mighty power of sanctification, to restore to the image of God.
But I think the problems of the family of origin that psychologists talk about are also worth referring to. The main point is not to put the blame on the deeds or sins of the family members, passing the buck actually hurt our loved ones; but careful reflection upon whether the values and attitudes of family members have affected us. The aims of reviewing, reflection and probing are to forgive, to overcome evil with goodness, to put right and have a breakthrough. Ephesians 4: 22-24 says: “…… to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.”
Prudent opinions
Finally, I want to say that Christians need not treat psychology as rival.As long as Christians follow biblical principles and guidance of the Holy Spirit to carefully analyse the theories of psychology and in the application process to put words from the Bible as core, aiming to be like Christ and taking the deepening of faith, hope and love as the goal, to reject any psychic experiences other than that of Christianity; I think the “seed of the Word” in psychology and the light that it brings is of use to mankind.
Even Augustine, one of the most important early church theologian, in Chapter 40 of his book “On Christian Doctrine” points out that “Whatever Has Been Rightly Said by the Heathen, we must Appropriate to Our Uses: Moreover, if those who are called philosophers, and especially the Platonists, have said aught that is true and in harmony with our faith, we are not only not to shrink from it, but to claim it for our own use.”
John Wesley, one of the eighteenth century’s most influential Evangelists, had the same idea as Augustine. On the one hand he wanted to be “a man of one book “ i.e. taking the Bible as the only criterion of truth, the only model of a pure religion; but on the other hand, he read widely and encouraged preachers to acquire knowledge on history, science, metaphysics, philosophy, the history of Christian thought, modern world history and etc. (refer Thomas Jackson, ed, The Works of John Wesley, 14 vols, 5:3; 10:480-500).
Answered by Rev Thomas Lau
(Lecturer of Methodist Theological
School, Sibu)
Translated by KT Chew